Boot toe bar failure? [was: Highcountry Skating (was: For inspiration: a true viking breaks a record)]

[Scott Elliot]

One of my son's friends ripped the toe bar out of his Solomon racing boots a
few years ago. They were skiing down some black diamond moguls on the back
side of Silver Star in their racing equipment one spring. That is not what
racing equipment is designed for and it is a wonder that is all they broke.

My son's NNN II bindings survived, but I don't think that means they are
tougher. He was just more lucky.

Scott Elliot
http://www3.telus.net/selliot/

And YES, the thought of repairing a broken toe bar 12 miles into the
backcountry does scare the heck out of us. We have often carried a
spare ski (which, of course, made that we had a spare binding), and
usually carry a spare pole. But nobody has carried a spare boot, which
could be the weak link. And, like I said, when it gets REALLY steep, I

Just to satisfy my curiosity, has anyone here ever actually broken
or ripped out a toe bar? Or seen one someone else has broken or
ripped out? If so, what brand? I remember years ago thinking this
would be all to easy to do, but after really trying to rip one out
of a defective boot, I came to the conclusion it was far less likely
to happen than other modes of equipment failure.
[I did see one that had been partially ripped out of a low-end model
boot at a rental center once. The accompanying story I've mostly
forgotten, but it involved a very large man who had failed to use
the equipment properly. Even then it hadn't ripped out so far that
it couldn't have been (carefully) skied on.]
-Mitch

[daveXCski]

Just to satisfy my curiosity, has anyone here ever actually broken
or ripped out a toe bar? Or seen one someone else has broken or
ripped out? If so, what brand?

Mitch
I have broken 2 toe bars. Both have been Salomon 911 skate boots
(right foot). They both cracked where the bar enters the plastic. I
think it's caused by roller skiing. Any twisting forces that would
normally cause your snow ski to skid out sideways is absorbed through
the boot and binding in this area. Roller skis of course track
perfectly. After 3-4 years of constant use they let go. I think the
dynamic that keep your skis tracking in the winter get the summer
off.(Len, can you work on this?) I'm now waiting for my Pilot boots to
do the same thing. However, it might not happen do to the play that
has developed in the bindings over the years. I thought about
replacing them but they may just be keeping my boots alive.

Dave

And YES, the thought of repairing a broken toe bar 12 miles into the
backcountry does scare the heck out of us. We have often carried a
spare ski (which, of course, made that we had a spare binding), and
usually carry a spare pole. But nobody has carried a spare boot, which
could be the weak link. And, like I said, when it gets REALLY steep, I

Just to satisfy my curiosity, has anyone here ever actually broken
or ripped out a toe bar? Or seen one someone else has broken or
ripped out? If so, what brand? I remember years ago thinking this
would be all to easy to do, but after really trying to rip one out
of a defective boot, I came to the conclusion it was far less likely
to happen than other modes of equipment failure.
[I did see one that had been partially ripped out of a low-end model
boot at a rental center once. The accompanying story I've mostly
forgotten, but it involved a very large man who had failed to use
the equipment properly. Even then it hadn't ripped out so far that
it couldn't have been (carefully) skied on.]
-Mitch

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

I was told by a former teammate that they had dug out a toe bar on

an

old salomon boot and went back almost to the middle of the sole.

That's good to hear -- I hope it's true of newer boots as well. From
walking a parking lot a few times (big mistake) the plastic under the
toe bar on some of my boots is almost worn away and I was fearful the
bar would pull out soon.

JT

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[Pete Hickey]

Just to satisfy my curiosity, has anyone here ever actually broken
or ripped out a toe bar?

I was told by a former teammate that they had dug out a toe bar on an
old salomon boot and went back almost to the middle of the sole.

Yep. I saw a pair of boots which must have been worn walking a few
hundred miles on pavement. It was easy to see that the toe bar
went WAY back. Even mostly exposed, it still didn't budge when
pulled.

damaging the sole to the point where the toe bar may be dangerous to
use would be easier in my opinion.
--Matt

[Ken Roberts]

That's great news, makes me feel much better about using the SNS binding in
the backcountry.

Ken

[Bob Maswick]

Just to satisfy my curiosity, has anyone here ever actually broken
or ripped out a toe bar? Or seen one someone else has broken or
ripped out? If so, what brand?

I fell a few years ago on a wicked downhill while staying in the icy
fast tracks. IIRC, my right Alpina NNN-2 boot stayed clipped into the
binding, but the sole and bar were so bent up that it would not go
back into the binding. I walked and slid along on one ski back to the
lodge.

Dave Matthews at Reliable Racing looked at the boot and warranty
replaced it without a second thought.

- Bob